One down, one to go

Sold the Torque Workcentre (Router Master) today, which is a good step (goes towards paying for some of the shed electrical installation!), so just have the tablesaw to go.

And I do need it to go – it is taking up precious space, as much as it is a reluctant sale.  (I really do like the TS10L).  However, it is what it is.

Hopefully as a bit of encouragement, I have taken 10% off the asking price, and set it to a very round $2000. See here for more details.

Photo 6-06-2014 17 32 31

Workshop Architect

I’ve been having a bit of a brainstorming session today about workshop design and layout (with myself, unfortunately – bit of a one-way conversation), and was lamenting that there isn’t such a person as a workshop design specialist, who can take all the tools and workflows, and come up with an optimum design.

What is bugging me, is even with the significantly improved floorspace, I still seem to be lacking a good workshop area – open space, perhaps (at worst) with a workbench in the middle.

As much as it is great having machines with plenty of space around them, finally being able to access those machines easily, I haven’t gotten the layout right yet.

Unlike some, at least I have access to the collective wisdom of all the readers out there, so let’s brainstorm. Ideas on the table and let’s see if we can’t work this through.

In no particular order, here are some of my thoughts.

1. The mezzanine. When finished, it is going to have a good amount of floorspace, and although limited in a number of areas, how can this space be best utilisted? Limitations include:
– access (obviously), being upstairs, and accessed by ladder
– floor load capacity. Not sure the /m2 load rating – will have to find out.
– head height
However, working around these limitations, is there any function (other than storage of items not needed on a daily basis) that can be located to the mezzanine?

2. Dust extraction. The dust extraction layout will have to be compromised to work around workshop layout, and not the other way around. However, is having the extractor on the mezzanine a good option. I’m having definite second thoughts. I put it up there to a. free up workshop floorspace b. for it to be inside the main shed, as it draws a lot of air, and if outside the main shed, that is a lot of hot (or cold) air that would be drawn into the workshop, and c. as that would make it generally central to the machines it is drawing from. On the other hand, having it in the timber store next door gives better access, better noise separation, better workshop air quality (particularly on the mezzanine).

3. Infeed and outfeed on the jointer and thicknesser. These machines are claiming a lot of the new workshop’s floor space. Both in having area around the machines to walk, but also material workflow area. Is there a better layout? Would there be a benefit in moving one (or both) to the long, narrow timber store? Especially if the dust extractor is going in there. Or is there a better way to manage their floorspace requirements? If it was an option, would replacing the two separate machines with one combo be a better solution? There are some pretty interesting alternate machines out there that could perform both functions in one footprint, and with one infeed and outfeed area.

4. Location of the router table. Would it be better up against a wall (rear edge) as I had it in the previous workshop? Should it swap position with the workbench that is near the lathes?

5. Things I like about the current layout: The lathe area. That back section of the workshop is still looking as I envisaged it. The rest though, really not sure if it is right, and how best to tweak it.

6. Storage. Still a big problem. I have a lot of things still packed in crates, waiting for their new homes to be revealed. Still unsure what a good solution will be.

7. I still really need to move some machines and tools on to new homes, such as the TS10L tablesaw, and the Torque Router Master. The list of machines and tools to move on is also growing. I have a bunch of cheap clamps (quick action, Irwin style, but much cheaper) to go, a scrollsaw, even a radial arm saw. The big ticket items need to go quickly though – need the funds to pay for some of what the workshop has cost, and they take up significant room too.

So that is the current list – any thoughts?

TS10L

Quick update on the saw.

pict7583.jpg?w=468(photo from the previous shed – Incra Express and mobile base not included)

Following are current photos:

Photo 1-02-2014 22 52 31It includes the router table insert shown here. This is one of the original router tables from Professional Woodworkers Supplies, a multilayer laminate of masonite and MDF, with tracks, and an opening for a router table insert such as the Woodpecker inserts and lifts.

Photo 1-02-2014 22 52 38

(Blade guard and miter gauge not shown).

There has been quite a bit of interest shown, so I better get on with it.  After researching the current equivalent new price for a saw of this calibre, and new vs second hand prices, I’ve determined a price around $2400 to be reasonable.

It is not being offered elsewhere (at this stage).

Setting up the SawStop

It has been a while coming (sure I could say that about a number of things at the moment!), but I finally had an opportunity to put the SawStop together.

Shot some video of that at the same time, so hopefully that will go into the details more.

First impressions are good, very similar to the TS10L in a lot of ways.

Once it was up, I tweaked the layout a little more.  Still plenty of room for the few machines yet to be moved in (bandsaw, drill press, DVR lathe).  Some things are still not quite in their right place, but as has been observed, lots of room around each machine.

Starting to feel like a workshop out there, especially now with the tablesaw set up.  After I get the current video of the assembly done, there will be more to follow, including finetuning the setup.  One little surprise – despite being a 15A machine (technically 13A), I was surprised it came with a 10A plug  Not that it will make a difference – I still have a 15A circuit available for it.

TS10L

First, apologies to those who have emailed me about the TS10L – sorry that I haven’t gotten back to any of you as yet.

I haven’t seriously investigated what it is worth – new it would be around $3000+.

It is significantly superior to the TSC10HB, both in function and build quality (not that I am saying the TSC10HB is necessarily a bad tablesaw!)  It has 52″ rails, left tilt, biesemeyer fence, quick release low profile fence, weighing 220kg.  Arbor lock for ease of blade change, and dado blade capable (18mm or so capacity) (not to mention the power to drive one easily).  I’m not removing the extra insert to the right of the table, ready for a router on a router mount to be dropped straight in.

It has an impressively small amount of runout – a really accurate machine.

Anyone wanting to have a look before deciding if you seriously want it are welcome (and encouraged)-I prefer to know you are confident in what you are buying! You can also see the saw throughout this site obviously, including videos.

Offers are welcome, as are questions.

Battle of the TS saws

Back around March 2008, I posted quite a lot of information on this site as I went through the process of choosing a cabinet-type tablesaw.

Now four years on (believe it or not!!), and prompted by a recent query (given my tablesaw, the TS10L has been off the market for around 3 years) I can look back at the decision I made, and whether the apparent successor would have been a contender.

Tablesaw comparison - what floats your boat?

Saw Soup

This is also interesting as news filters through that may have gotten themselves as national importers/distributors of Jet power tools. Still a rumour at this stage though. Wonder if it will impact on Powermatic as well?

***Update: it is confirmed (information received independently from 3 different sources) that Carbatec have become the importers/distributors of Jet.  In doing so, it is likely that competing saws also made in Taiwan (such as the TSCE-10L) will no longer be available once current stocks are exhausted***

So 4 years on. The TS10L is still a great saw, and I still have no issues or regrets over the decision. No weaknesses or issues have come to light in that time, other than a couple of very minor items I resolved very early on – the antikickback pawls that were spring-loaded and causing damage to timber passing underneath (since removed), and the insert having to be lifted to get access to the guard/splitter quick release (solved by creating a new insert that can be removed from around the splitter).
So what features really make this saw, that are worth ensuring are included in other models?

Well many, but there are a number that do come to mind. The arbor lock for blade changing. Quick release for the splitter/guard. That the splitter/guard rises and falls with the blade. The left-tilting blade. The Biesemeyer-style fence. The large, heavy, flat tabletop that is significant on both sides of the blade and having two miter slots – one either side of the blade. The overall weight, and heavy manufacturing of the machine.

TS10L ….. TSC10HB Specification TSCE-10L
254mm 250mm Blade Size 254mm
16mm max*** 15mm max Dado Capacity 15mm max
Left Right Tilt Direction Left
3HP 15A 240V 3HP 15A 240V Motor 3HP 15A 240V
Induction Induction Motor Type Induction
2850 RPM Motor Speed 2850 RPM
4000RPM Blade Speed 4300 RPM
Triple Belt Drive Type Poly v-belt
5/8″ 5/8″ Arbor Diameter 5/8″
75mm 77mm Max Cut at 90° 75mm
69mm 58mm Max Cut at 45° 55mm
255/695mm Max Rip L/R 300/762mm
1072x739mm 1015x685mm Table Size WxD 1118x739mm
860mm Table Height 864mm
305mm Blade to Table Front 305mm
150mm Blade to Table Rear
Biesemeyer Style HD Al Lever Action? Fence Type Biesemeyer Style
Clear, Lifting Clear, Lifting Blade Guard Clear, Lifting
Quick Release, Floating Fixed, Anti-kickback Riving Knife Fixed Height *
Magnetic Contactor Magnetic Contactor Switch Type Magnetic Contactor
1×4″ 1×4″ Dust Port 1×4″
Cabinet Cabinet Stand Cabinet
1480x1100x980mm Footprint 1650x1100x1100mm **
220kg 190kg Weight 216kg **

* Error on website – riving knife does rise and fall

** Contradiction between website and latest catalogue

*** I have fitted more – up to 20mm from memory

So what does all this mean? Basically that it is very hard to tell machines apart on spec.

I’d be asking myself (and looking at floor models to see) where the additional 25+kg came from? Some is in the larger top, but the TS10L is not the largest of the three, but is the heaviest. Heavier mechanism (which is a good thing).

Left vs right tilt. I’ve heard justifications for both. I believe left tilt is a safer machine, so that is why I went that way. So did SawStop, and Powermatic. Think that is a pretty clear message.

Riving knives (and guards) are vital safety features. You cannot use them every cut, so one that is quick release is highly desirable. It has to work for you, not against you.

If I was in the market for a tablesaw again, I would first look at SawStop (for the quality of the saw, not just the safety feature), and Powermatic, and work my way down until I got to a model I could afford, rather than work my way up, trying to justify each price increase. In hindsight, I do not have any regrets spending the extra amount I did.

When looking at the machines in person, I would be looking at the strength of the mechanisms, smoothness of operation, quality of the motor (size is a bit of an indicator here – they are both the same power, but is one a lot smaller and therefore less robust internal construction / cheaper manufacture), quality of the fence and how easy it is to adjust/set it accurately to a measurement.

One thing that isn’t shown in the specs, is the accuracy to which the machine is made.  The TS10L has an impressive lack of runout in the arbor, both axially and radially.  This affects the accuracy of every single cut.  Before buying any machine, I would want to know / physically test the runout using a dial gauge.  Two similar looking machines with a large difference in tag price could boil down to one being superbly accurate, and the other being unfit for your purpose.

I don’t know the specs on the individual machines so this is a general comment.  When I did my “Battle of the Blades” soon after getting my machine, I tested the runout and was very impressed – it could have made the difference between every cut being rougher than need be, so is definitely worth considering.  http://stusshed.com/reviews/blade-review/

There is also a strong intangible element here – do you like the saw?  Will you regret not going for the larger/more expensive model in 2, 5, 10 years?  These are long term relationships you forge with large workshop machines – they should last a lifetime, and are not short term affairs as you get with cheap machines and disposable tools.  For the sake of a few dollars (and I do acknowledge the cost difference is significant) will you remain happy with the decision?

This article is definitely not a comprehensive look at current tablesaws, it is an attempt to address a specific question. If looking, there are other manufacturers and suppliers that you would have to carefully consider while making that crucial decision.

The legendary TS10L

Despite information to the contrary, it appears that Carbatec Perth have received a shipment of the impressive TS10L tablesaw (the same one that graces my workshop).

No idea what this means about their availability, or what price they are, but if you are in the market for a great 10″ tablesaw, it’d be worth a phonecall or 2. One to your local Carbatec, and one to Perth. If anyone finds out more news about this, please post it here- price, number of machines available etc.

I am assuming/hoping that we are talking about the same machine here- the TS10L of old.

I am still a big fan of mine if you haven’t gathered. So Go Go Go!

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